wonderland (java 3D-chat)

[hermetic]

Sitting in java courses (hey Thyme, I also had a C++ -course 4 weeks, sadly only console-stuff, heh, but got 100 of 100 points ), so I stumbled over this:

https://wonderland-modules.dev.java.net/
notice the shitty 'avatars', however its sun behind it, I may check it a bit deeper soon...

[fabricator]

[thyme]

hey herm good to hear from you

If you got 100 out of a 100 for standard template libraries (STL) you will be able to give me a few pointers

Both bumpy and me find STL unintuitive, sadly this is the library usually presented to the novice and so C++ often gets judged by this library but C++ is not limited to this style of programming. What I like about C++ is it lets you program in a wide range of styles. With the right library it can feel like a high level scripting language.

Java3d sounded like it would meet my needs better than VRML back in 2000 when both were very new to me and for a while I started converting my techuelife island robots from C++ DirectX to java3d until I came to the conclusion java3d was not as smooth or as stable as blaxxun contact. Java3d did not seem very well supported by SUN then but more work has been done on Java3d since so it may have improved.
I tried some of the Java OpenGL (JOGL) examples from the SUN site about 4 years ago, they were the first 3d Java animations I have seen free of jerks but these examples are in the megabyte range to download. I am sure they could be rewritten to be a fraction of this size.

best wishes with your programming lessons

[hermetic]

thanx Thyme.

You may check these java (jogl) examples (it's not java3d)
http://www.jmonkeyengine.com/
'movies and demos'
Sure, nothing is as fast as Hg

[hermetic]

Hmm,. Im really wondering how the sun-guys think a new tech should be advertised:
-Wonderland is bad documented,
-runs on my two OS linux and 2k... NOT (Im still trying to figure out why not),
-the graphics (images) found on net are shitty 'box-world' enviroments (guys, do you think that are avatars?!? They look like 10 yrs ago-avs!)



but ok, its still in development.

So why do I think its the right new 3d-chat way?: Im pissed of all the 'closed shop'-apps.
I dont want to run in another bxx-dilemma, with a company crushed and a system simply
droped.
-A comm.-system must be owned by the comm, including the source, or it will not survive in future.
Thats what the sun seem to have understood.

The second nice idea is, they try to make desktop-things in 3d, -a dream I ever had.

Thats why I will continue to look on it.
Here are some more infos about:
Interview with Sun's Chris Melissinos (starts in the middle of the page)
http://lwn.net/Articles/228364/

Ahmad Retha :: Blog (He show how to build rooms and stuff in wonderland, so far looks like the best documentation I found about)
https://elgg.leeds.ac.uk/bms4a2r/weblog/skip=10
looks like a (bad) VRML-world from years ago? YESS!
Check it out:


Ok guys, go to SL, go elsewhere, let us talk about our experience in the different ways twe spread now after bxx. Let us talk about the highs and lows about each system.


ah.. Alain, can you *ping* your french folks? Some of them seemed to be interested and speaking of Wonderland too. (hope they can speak/write some english maybe?)

[Pyth7]

Hi Herm,
Looking at your screen shot I want to sing "Are we not avs? We are Devo..." It's the way they are holding their arms.

When you say "-A comm.-system must be owned by the comm, including the source, or it will not survive in future." do you mean to include the
client 3D viewer as well?

The reason I ask is IMHO the best, quickest, cheapest solution is to stick
with VRML/X3D and use whatever SAI tech each viewer has whether it be
proprietory or open source. Tha way the community is not locked into
one viewer vendor.
I have to admit though if the community is your Piratez game, I think it would be a daunting task to get it work in its full glory in an another viewer besides Contact.

In terms of SecondLife, as you might gather from my other posts I like it and respect it.
The fact it was made open source makes me like it and respect it even more and even capitulate. There is an open source version trying to implement client side scripting over the inefficient server side stuff.
John Landry who I share our server now operates an OpenSim.

The reason I don't go fully into SL tech is there is no way to translate my
VRML work and I don't want to start from scratch.
Also SL can't do 2D. With VRML you can make a CAD program world
with a model 3D compass that draws 2D circles ( using PointSet Node )
and a rule drawing lines ( IndexedLineSet of course ) SL has no analog
to this, which is a mistake in terms of educational value.

tc
Russ Kinter

[hermetic]

Did some tries before christmas on windowzee, sadly my (old) PC did run out of space soon (I guess it is needed to have 1Gb ram, if you want to run wonderland on win, especial if you run the server on the same machina).



In the last week I did a test on my (home) linux box too. Installed glassfish and started the client over my home network via java netstart.

The next step is to get the money ready to buy a new pc, so I may be able to install a home linux server as a wonderland server and bring it into the internet.
Due to wonderland is still in development, I dont want to install it on cyworx yet.

Besides that I need to find out how to replace the lame default wonderland world with my own creations.

Keep fingers pressed!
I still would like to join a group of 'wonderlanders'

Hehe, yes Pyth, "Are we not avs? We are Devo..."!

[fabricator]

Good to see your still playing around with 3d herm.

I managed to bring my 2GB ram computer to its knees simply by making a 2d map using 3d max, namely things like spline tools to overlay roads etc.

Something about windows XP's patches which increase how much ran it needs over the years.

[Pyth7]

[hermetic]

Thank you fabricator and Pyth.

Yes Pyth, I thought to develop DM further too (I still can remember how much work it was to get a secure -well-stressable system working and I'm still not sure that wonderland is that capable, but I hope those SUN-guys did a good job -if not them, who else with java?), so I prefere to use wonderland because:
-its no island-solution (HarrHarr, aye-aye, yes)
-it makes sense to get experience and knowledge of that system, if its an good solution, more people will use them.
-it has way more functions (sure that makes it a bit clumbsy too) than our system and a bigger community developping new stuff.

and last but not least:
-I cant stay and look at those 'we are devo'-avatars, they too stupid, they need something better

[fabricator]

Lets just hope it doesn't
- leave you marooned on a deserted island
- run aground and get shipwrecked
- sink without a trace into Davy Jones' locker
Harr Harr

Mind you propriety solutions are more likely to do this sort of thing, just look the good ship Adobe Atmosphere. All hands to the lifeboats, she's going down fast.

---------

Seriously though, I don't know enough about the avatars to offer anything to replace them. Any hope of a few clues for us mere mortals ?

[Pyth7]

[hermetic]

I was able to upload 'primeCity' in the new wonderland server.
Here is a screenshot of it:

Well its still not perfect, but its a step forward.
Avatars, gui and graphic-engine are a lot better than in 0.4.
But its all still in development, so there are still a lot of glitches...

The easiest way, if you want to try it out, is to download one of the 'binary', if you dont want to fiddle around with java compile problems.
Download from here:
https://wonderland.dev.java.net/binary-builds.html

If you have slow hardware, dont let run the server and client on the same machine.
With that in mind, client(!) runs in my enviroment even on a 128MB shitty craphic card on a 500 mhz pentium3 (sure the nifty avs, you get only if your card can support 2.0 shaders).

Models need to be converted to collada (.dae) or google-sketchup (.kmz).
Sadly X3D is no longer supported.

But I'm thinking if I should write a .wrl loader when I'm more famillar with WL and their 'modules'-system.

[alain]

[alain]

I downloaded Wonderland.jar , 300 MO !

I have no idea what to do with that

I need a tutorial , sorry